Blue Jays & Guardians
Submitted by: Stells20
Blue Jays
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Shane Bieber | 26 | Majors | SP | Very low | 3 | 130.7 | 27.8 | 102.9 | 92.6 | 113.2 | 133.8 | |
| Andres Gimenez | 23 | Majors | SS | Medium | 5 | 22.3 | 10.6 | 11.7 | 9.3 | 11.7 | 14 | |
| Jose Ramirez | 28 | Majors | 3B | 2B | Medium | 2 | 97.7 | 24 | 73.7 | 58.9 | 73.7 | 88.4 |
Total Value:
198.6
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bo Bichette | 23 | Majors | SS | Very low | 4 | 171.1 | 55 | 116.1 | 104.5 | 127.7 | 150.9 | |
| Gabriel Moreno | Minors | C | 64 | 51.2 | 64 | 76.8 | ||||||
| Nate Pearson | 24 | Majors | SP | RHRP | Medium | 4 | 10.4 | 1.3 | 9.1 | 7.3 | 9.1 | 10.9 |
Total Value:
200.8
Comments
7If I thought Pearson was no longer an big injury risk then I might consider it, but where does Bichette play for Cleveland in the next 2-3 yrs. MIF is certainly covered and covered quite well in Cleveland. We need corner players and a C that can hit and defend. Moreno looks to cover the C part and I guess Bichette could transition to 3B. Regardless, Pearson's health concerns make this a no go for me.
Another crazy deal that would never happen, but interesting to think of it from both sides. The Jays get huge upgrades 3rd and SP, and have a serviceable SS. They are well positioned to contend for the World Series for the next 2-3 years. Trading Bichette is the unthinkable part, but I would do that deal despite mortgaging the future. The Guardians shed some salary while getting 3 core pieces for the next 4+ years. Retool for a run in the next 2-3 years. Curious if you were the GM of either team, would you do the deal?
As the deal is currently structured.. definitely not.. from both sides... Both Bieber and Bichette are approaching generational/untouchable talent levels... Neither would be moved in tandem with added players/prospects...
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
Not knowing where Bichette would play? You guess Bichette could transition to 3B? Who in your mind is a better SS option for Cleveland than Bichette? Rosario has a career WRC+ of 92 and 2021 DRS of -9 Bichette comparably is WRC+ of 126 career and a 2021 DRS 2 IMO Bichette for Bieber + Gimenez is an absolute no go from the Jays perspective. Not trading an everyday SS who put up a 4.9 WAR in 2021 for a Every 5 day SP (who dealt with injury last year) and a SS who at the plate has performed far worse than in house option Santiago Espinal (who would himself be a SS upgrade in Cleveland) Leaves Pearson and Moreno for Ramirez. This part of the deal IMO is one the Jays might do. Moreno has to be part of any deal bringing Ramirez to Toronto. But I also feel within the Jays FO he is considered untouchable. But then also from Cleveland's side of things I'm not sure its enough, they would need to be wow'd by the package coming back. which if Pearson's valued hadn't dropped like it has might have been enough.
@Cluth If each part of the deal you broke out (Bichette for Bieber + Gimenez AND Pearson and Moreno for Ramirez) is a no go from each team, doesn't than mean that we are close to a fair deal on the whole? I totally recognize this deal has zero percent chance of happening, but I can't see a reason either side would say no other than they are 'franchise cornerstones'. There was also comments about Pearson's health which are totally legit, but we should also recognize there are injury concerns with Bieber too. My opinion as to the overwhelming negative reaction to the CLE side is no one wants to see their team tank, as opposed to the deal being unfair or not in the best long term interest of the team. In any scenario, I appreciate the comments and debate ;)
The debate. That's why I'm here. With Ramirez only having two years of control I find it hard to believe they'll find a suitable offer. Only two years is tough for an organization to give up a prospect like Moreno. But yet a guy like Ramirez demands it. Which is why I also understand why there isn't a single Cleveland fan on here that would be happy with the return for Ramirez, or Bieber for that matter. Reason I felt compelled to comment in the first place. (I wasn't going to just because of the likely hood of this actually happening) is BigBat's comment about Bichette. But I made my argument on that already.
So who plays 3B when Ramirez is dealt? If Gimenez is also going to Toronto in this deal then one of Arias, Freeman, or Rocchio is being promoted and playing SS. Arias and Rocchio are better defensive SS than Bichette. If you suggest "Jones play 3B" then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You didn't address the concerns for Pearson's health which only re-enforces my concerns. There's a reason why his value is only 9.1 while his ceiling is so high. He likely ends up in the BP in 22 which doesn't help Cleveland if they're sending Bieber to Toronto. Moreno is the best C prospect in baseball, but he is not a proven MLB player. He wouldn't be the first highly rated prospect to struggle at the MLB level. For this deal to work for Cleveland all of Moreno, Pearson, and Bichette would have to hit. The only one that is a safe bet at this time is Bichette. You know this isn't a move that a team looking to compete would do or it would be a poor one for Toronto as well. Instead, it gives Toronto 2 AS caliber players and a nice young SS while Cleveland gets a sure thing in Bichette who plays a position that they have the most depth in. Cleveland could do a lot better dealing Ramirez and Bieber individually so no thanks.