Athletics & Guardians
Submitted by: Deathstarchris88
Athletics
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Daniel Espino | 23 | Minors | SP | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4.6 | 3.7 | 4.6 | 5.5 | ||
| Parker Messick | 23 | Minors | SP | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7.6 | 6.1 | 7.6 | 9.2 |
Total Value:
12.2
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| JP Sears | 29 | Majors | SP | Medium | 3.6 | 28.9 | 16.2 | 12.6 | 10.1 | 12.6 | 15.2 |
Total Value:
12.6
Comments
17
Down vote for the A's. Espino hasn't pitched since 2022 and Messick is a back-end SP, at best.
Cleveland says no... They likely have Messick rated as a better SP than Sears...
Messick's ceiling is vastly higher than Sears. If you think Messick is only capable of being a BOR SP then you don't know what you're talking about. His velo is up, his extension is fantastic and he spins the ball with the best of them. I think every scout/pundit has moved him several places up Cleveland's list. Espino will likely never be a SP again, but he has elite backend BP capability yet. I'm not dealing him for a mediocre SP like Sears. Cleveland has numerous Sears already in the upper levels of the system.
Statcast has Messick's average velocity at 92.6. He's topped 95 a handful of times during the season. Spin and extension are important, run and ride or sink are factors... but Sears was averaging 93.1 his rookie season with the A's. And when I look at their performance at similar levels the biggest difference (Walk rate) tilts heavily in Sears' favor. I have heard Messick has moved up scout lists but if he's so good why is he stuck behind Logan Allen and Slade Cecconi, with Lively on the shelf? I even heard the Guardians are stretching out Cantillo again, presumably for rotation depth. If the Guardians think Messick's ceiling is vastly higher to Sears then why isn't Messick in the Cleveland rotation? Espino's RP capability is elite, in theory, but the guy hasn't pitched in a game in over 3 years.
That's an easy explanation... He hasnt had enough minor league starts at AA or higher. Cleveland won't promote any SP who hasn't had 20 or so starts at AA or higher to the bigs unless they absolutely have too. He just hit that number... Plus he is also not on the 40 man roster. You had Fry, Bieber, Sabrowski and Stephan on the 60 day IL. Fry is back... Bieber and Sabrowski will start minor league rehab this week and Stephan is likely near as well. Plus Messick was with the big club if Cecconi couldn't go in his last start. Plus BigBat hates soft tossers, so he values Allen like he is a waste of space... A sub 4.20 FIP is not a waste of space. Allen and Cecconi have been pitching just fine, so you can't add someone to the 40 man roster to replace them just because. Ortiz and Williams have too much pure talent to take them out of the rotation. Messick would be with a bunch of other MLB clubs right now...
Sure. Messick hit his 20th GS on May 10. And it's not like you could DFA Matt Krook, select Messick, and option Logan Allen to add a MOR starting pitcher.
When Lively went down, Cecconi was the first to take his spot since he was already on the 40 man. Cecconi had two solid starts, then had a minor injury. Messick was with the big league club if Cecconi couldn't go in that start. Then the fact everyone is pitching well, makes it almost impossible to call up Messick. You can't send down a guy, who has worked hard and done everything right just for a prospect... Bieber, sure, a prospect, no... Plus with the fact they have a full 40 man roster, with 3 pitchers coming back in July and guys like DeLauter and Valera, coming back from injury and Kayfus absolutely destroying AAA hitting and only Kwan at the big league club is hitting in the OF... They have no room to add Messick... when they have to find 5 roster spots in July...
I don't thin Allen is a wast of space so keep your irrational thoughts to yourself and do not try to speak for me. He's actually less talented than Cecconi, Messick, Cantillo and Means. He's a left handed version of Lively and struggles to get through a lineup more than twice.
First off, you're seriously undervaluing Cecconi. Secondly, I've watched Messick pitch a few times this season and he consistently sits 94. He isn't "stuck" behind Allen. Why would a team looking to get max value out of a player replace him with a prospect prior to dealing him? You won't get an argument from me on Espino's situation. He's worth nothing if he doesn't stay healthy, but that's something Cleveland should find out instead of giving him away for a BOR SP that won't crack the rotation anyway.
Actually, I like Cecconi a lot. That's how badly I think you're overestimating Messick. And we must have differing definitions of "consistently sits" 94 MPH.
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
Messick is now listed as a top 100 prospect by some places. He's actually gotten way better since the beginning of last season. He's up a mph or two this season. I actually think the A's would do this in a heart beat since I feel like Messick will be better as a SP than Sears. Espino is also going to the bullpen, from everything I heard. No one expects him to start, plus he's likely going to have a 4th option year. I dont think Cleveland does this... They have become that high on Messick... He skipped a level I In their normal fast track... Last guys to do that.... Bibee and Williams...
You're wrong about the A's heart beat and I disagree that Messick is any better than a back-end SP. Don't misunderstand, I don't think Sears is any better than a back-end SP, but he's done it at the big league level and Messick hasn't. And I'm not sure what you mean by he's skipped a level. As for Espino... bullpen or rotation, I don't care until he gets back on the mound.
Cleveland has a system of promotion that almost every single pitcher goes through... Messick actually skipped one of those steps. If you haven't watched him this season, then you wouldn't get the fact his velo is better than in the past as well. The other guys recently who skipped that step... McKenzie, Bibee, Williams, Allen... All guys who got to the bigs... Messick was almost called up the other day. He would have been up IF Cecconi's injury was worse than expected. Looking at the A's time line, Messick actually makes more sense mostly because he's MLB ready and will habe 6 years of control, over the 3 years of control of Sears. Even if he's a BOR, you want the 6 years of control over the 3+. He's got better velocity and more swing and miss stuff than Sears does... Sears never put up the numbers Messick has been in the minors.
Better doesn't mean the velocity is good. But you're right, Sears never had a stretch where he was walking 4.53 per 9. His AAA K-rate was roughly the same, though.
Sears wasn't a full time starter til he got to the A's... I actually always wanted him as a reliever in Cleveland, not a starter. Either way, Messick is a better prospect than Sears was. He's definitely rated higher than BTV has him. Honestly, it's not like Cleveland would swap Messick for Sears anyways let alone add someone else...
The Yankees made him a full time starter when they promoted him to AAA in '21; they had him start in their bullpen when they called him up in '22. He'd have been an interesting bullpen arm if he'd gone down that path.
I made multiple trades on here for Sears for Cleveland's bullpen when he was with the Yankees lol