Mariners & Guardians
Submitted by: Kybowren
Mariners
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Andres Gimenez | 26 | Majors | 2B | SS | Low | 7 | 115 | 101.5 | 13.5 | 10.8 | 13.5 | 16.2 |
| Josh Naylor | 27 | Majors | 1B | OF | Low | 2 | 31.1 | 18 | 13.1 | 10.5 | 13.1 | 15.7 |
| Jose Ramirez | 31 | Majors | 3B | Very low | 5 | 191.4 | 105 | 86.4 | 69.1 | 86.4 | 103.7 |
Total Value:
113
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Harry Ford | 20 | Minors | C | 0 | 0 | 0 | 22.1 | 17.7 | 22.1 | 26.6 | ||
| Gabriel Gonzalez | 19 | Minors | OF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 11 | 8.8 | 11 | 13.2 | ||
| Lazaro Montes | 18 | Minors | OF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 11.9 | 9.5 | 11.9 | 14.3 | ||
| Bryan Woo | 23 | Majors | SP | 6 | 53.4 | 25.1 | 28.2 | 22.6 | 28.2 | 33.9 | ||
| Cole Young | 20 | Minors | SS | 0 | 0 | 0 | 24.3 | 19.4 | 24.3 | 29.2 | ||
| Colt Emerson | 18 | Minors | SS | 2B | 0 | 0 | 0 | 16.2 | 13 | 16.2 | 19.4 |
Total Value:
113.7
Comments
18Not sure I like this trade idea as it’s a lot of risk on both sides. However I think if the Gaurdians were willing to trade Ramirez it makes little sense to keep the other two guys and the return here is pretty massive and would help them. Also even with this trade they probably still could compete in the AL central next year and would be obvious favorites in the future and be the number 1 farm system in baseball for years.
Ramirez has a no trade clause that he will not waive. He gave up millions of dollars to get that no trade so he could stay where he was comfortable in Cleveland. How do you plan to get him to change his mind if added money won't do it. This trade proposal is dead in the water.
Every no trade clause has a buy out so ultimately if he was unwilling to waive it they could buy it out if the trade was worth the cost. I’m not saying this is realistic I was just gauging the cost of such a trade. I think this would be good value if they were to try and trade Ramirez at which point keeping the other two doesn’t make a lot of sense so if you can get a few more high level prospects by adding them why not do that.
He took many millions less to stay in Cleveland. What about that do you not understand? If more money meant nothing to him then, how is that going to be different now? Is Seattle going to pay the 50 -100 million he gave up getting the no trade because Cleveland certainly isn't. Cleveland and Seattle are in exactly the same place. Both have pitching and need to add offense. Cleveland has the benefit of playing in the AL Central. I would argue that Cleveland has a better chance to compete right now than the Mariners do.
Whatever the buyout for the no trade clause is already in the contract. I don’t know what that buyout number is but it’s already been negotiated so it’s not going to be 50-100 million. It’s probably like 5-10 million.
Ramirez could have received 100 million more when than what he signed for in his last extension. 5-10 million now is not going to change his mind. Think, my friend. I don't get why you can't understand that.
What you don’t understand is that the buyout is there and Jose gets no say if the team actually just pays the money to buy it out. Also this whole he lost 100 million is nonsense. Sure he could have made more money on the open market but he had already signed a pre arb extension and then signed his new deal so in reality his current deal max probably cost him $75 million and literally the same is true of any player that takes money early in their arbitration years. You all are too emotionally invested in Jose to actually look at the merits of the trade and not just scream that he is unavailable. Every player in baseball including Julio Rodriguez on my team is available for the right price.
He has a full no trade clause and he alone controls where he plays.
You Cleveland fans are far too emotional about a fictional trade that if offered the GM of the Gaurdians would be dumb to not at least consider and explore.
You are making a hypothetical trade for a player who isn't even available and signed to the 2029 season with a no trade clause and no buy outs in his contract, plus you also traded for the guy they extended for 8 more seasons as well, Cleveland doesn't extend a guy then trade him until the end of their said contracts... Which JRam it would be in 27/28 and Gimenez in 29/30... Neither of these two are available period... They wouldn't listen to this deal at all... Next order of business, this deal doesn't get Cleveland what they actually need since all of these players outside of Woo are just too far away from MLB ready... They have an extremely strong starting 5 in 24 and they lack hitting on paper to be a legit playoff contender... This deal takes away any chance of winning with that starting staff they have collected. Cleveland isn't going to waste this group of pitching they assembled... If Cleveland would trade JRam it would have to be for a top 100 3B prospect that's at a near MLB ready plus a top 100 SP prospect, let alone adding the other two... This deal would require 3-4 MLB ready top 100 prospects and this doesn't have it...
Why are we here? Every trade proposal posted is fictional, but isn't the idea to construct a fair trade and then have a constructive conversation about it? We can pretend that JRam will waive his no trade clause and that Cleveland is willing to deal him at the same time, but the one thing that is certain and no amount of fiction can change is that Cleveland is not entering a rebuild. They are expecting to make a deep postseason run by 2025 and be competitive for the division title as early as this season. For that simple reason this deal is shit. You want a perennial AS player signed to a team friendly deal for what amounts to not much of anything except a good SP to a team deep in SP. I know many of my replies here are short and rude and that derives from all the shitty proposals posted like this one. It's like me trying to befriend you while saying nasty things about your momma. It's not "you Cleveland fans" anything. It's you fans of other teams that want our best players for guys you don't want and don't fit Cleveland's needs. If you're going to the dealership to by a pick-up truck are you going to let a salesman talk you into a compact car?
lol frankly I wouldn’t do this deal if I’m the Mariners as a Mariners fan this is giving away 6 top 100 guys for 1 guy that is getting older but is probably the best 3B in baseball and 2 years of a 1B guy and a huge risk on Gimenez given his last season and his future earnings on his contract. I wanted to simply see what I could come up with that is fair value if the Guardians would listen. My whole thought here was if they dealt Ramirez that they would go full rebuild and trade anyone making money or close to free agency hence including the other two. My point in this was creating a trade where I as a Mariners fan would be pretty hesitant to make due to the talent we would be giving up which is usually a good sign that it’s pretty close in the correct value because if you make a trade offer and really don’t care about what you gave up it’s probably unrealistic in terms of cost.
You aren't giving up what Cleveland would want in return, that's the whole issue... Gimenez is 25 years old and if worse comes to worse an average hitting 2B with Gold glove defense... They aren't willing to give him up for the BTV value... That's not an opinion but a fact, He's not available in this type of deal... Now if it was just JRam... It would take multiple top 100 prospects to get him, one of them likely being a top 3B prospect near MLB ready plus a top SP prospect... Woo and Ford, make sense, but Mariners don't have the other prospect Cleveland would want... You would have to get a third team involved to get JRam. Cleveland never settles for less than what they want and this isn't what they want...
...and then JRam would decline and squash the deal. There is no "buy out" without paying the entire contract upfront and even then he still has the right to decline the trade.
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
To be Frank, any legit guardians fan will think you are smoking some really good stuff if you think they would even listen to this... They are building around these three guys... The word is Around them... None of them are available plus JRam has a no trade clause... He took a paycut to stay in Cleveland. This deal would never happen outside of MLB the Show and even then, I don't think it would...
The Gaurdians aren’t going to win with Jose and he is 31 which means he is aging and likely to regress a little and is at the top of his value right now. The trade offered while I am not sure either team would be willing to do sets them up for much more success in the future than they currently have. Again not sure either team would be happy with the cost side of the deal which is why it’s probably pretty fair in terms of cost even if fans would be upset.
You don't get it... Cleveland just extended Gimenez for a long time and JRam has a NO TRADE CLAUSE... JRam isn't leaving Cleveland since Cleveland isn't trading him period...
What do you mean "they aren't going to win with Jose"? They already have won with Jose and they are going to be significantly better as soon as guys like Manzardo, DeLauter, Brito, Rodriguez and others establish themselves. Then you go on to state some hoopla about how this deal helps Cleveland. It doesn't help them, it sets them back another 3 yrs by adding a bunch of young, low level prospects. This is not a good deal for Cleveland and for the life of me I don't know what is so difficult to understand about "no trade clause"? Then on top of that you want 2 more of Cleveland's better players? Clearly you're a Mariners' fan.