Rangers & Guardians
Submitted by: mrvics hat
Rangers
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Emmanuel Clase | 26 | Majors | RP | Low | 5 | 85.6 | 34.2 | 51.4 | 41.1 | 51.4 | 61.6 | |
| Logan T. Allen | 25 | Majors | SP | 6 | 60.7 | 32.2 | 28.4 | 22.7 | 28.4 | 34.1 |
Total Value:
79.8
Guardians
| Name | Age | Level | P1 | P2 | Availability | Years | AFV | Salary | Surplus | Low | Median | High |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wyatt Langford | 21 | Minors | OF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 64.1 | 51.3 | 64.1 | 76.9 |
Total Value:
64.1
Comments
17This trade has previously been proposed (not by me), but in light of the Hader signing it should be revisited. There’s an arms race in the AL West and the Rangers are losing. If they can sign Montgomery they should be ok, not great, but ok. And if they do sign him maybe they would not consider this. Cleveland and Texas are in the same boat as far as TV revenue issues, but this trade has very little 2024 monetary impact, so it’s feasible. Huge on the field impact but not many dollars changing hands. This is an overpay by Cleveland,but something needed for both teams. The Rangers won a World Championship without Langford but will likely not repeat with their lack of reliable starting and relief pitching. Langford provides Cleveland the obvious, a critical middle of the lineup bat that will revitalize a sluggish offense (interesting that slugging and sluggish are opposites!). Cleveland is the opposite of slugging. I’ve always felt that the best trades are both exciting (for getting players), and horribly painful (for losing players). This trade qualifies in that sense for both teams.
Cleveland isn't swapping two talented pitchers for one talent led hitter who isn't MLB ready... I am not saying I wouldn't like him, it's just honestly something that doesn't make any sense for Cleveland right now...
Clase, to me, can be replaced. If his value was less then maybe just keep him, but if I can get Langford in this deal it’s easy for me. Langford will be an all-star. Replacing Allen is a problem. Unless Cleveland gets lucky in a trade then they can only get high end pitching through the draft, which takes time. The only reason I’m trading Allen is I think he’s overvalued. I think he will settle in as an ok 4/5, which is fine, but again getting Langford in return is a steal. A near future lineup of C-Naylor, 1B-Manzardo, 2B-pencil in Wetherholt, SS-Gimenez, 3B-Jose, OF-Kwan, Langford, DeLauter. That’s championship level. I can only deam! Thanks for the comment.
If Cleveland could get back Cody Bradford with Langford, I would definitely do the deal. I am willing to deal Clase and Langford would be a heck of a target at a position of need. Bradford can help fill the innings lost with Allen. We would also then likely keep Bieber as we can't afford to lose too many starters. Generally, I am not a risk taker, trading all that capital for one player, but I would for Langford.
Yes, I like Bradford as well, but I really don’t see Texas trading Langford, so I didn’t want to push too hard! And Texas is hard up for pitching so they may balk at moving any.
Tell me who is their Closer in Cleveland if we trade Clase? If you haven't noticed it's been a minute since Cleveland has produced a high leverage bullpen arm and even then, the last 10 years or so, outside of Allen, almost all our high leverage arms have been from outside of the organization... Allen is the only one we developed internally... Everyone else... Shaw, Miller, Clase, Stephan, Barlow etc... were all from outside of the organization. At the end of the day, Cleveland hasn't been very good at producing Closers/high leverage arms and haven't been good in a long time. I don't trust them to produce a legit Closer internally... Now when it comes to Langford, he's a good bat, but he played purely LF since drafted... I just can't see us trading Clase straight up for him...
Barlow would become the closer in 2024. Hentges possibly in 2025. Espino, if he can’t reliably start. Eventually Walters. A lot of established closers are from humble beginnings, either high round draft picks or failed starters. I won’t go into details here but look at each team’s closer in 2021 and see what became of them. Amazingly inconsistent position. Clase regressed in 2023 (admittedly from a lofty height), but a yellow flag. I would rather trade him now at his value than see it plummet with a mediocre 2024. He is a risk.
Toss in Stephan as a closer possibility. They also have relievers in the minors to try.
I'm sorry, but no team makes that trade and I'd be cautious with any PCL hitter. Don't get me wrong, Langford is one of the best prospects in all of baseball, but he hasn't played a single inning of ML baseball and to think he's worth 2 established, successful, inexpensive and young MLB players is crazy talk.
I’ll eat my Chief Wahoo hat if Langford isn’t a perennial all-star. He and the #1 pick in 2024 will carry the Guardians for years (until free agency and then they’ll be playing for the Dodgers or Yankees). If you can get these guys you do it, they’re unicorns. The status quo is not working and it won’t work! This team will never win a championship without taking some risks. The only reason this trade doesn’t happen is the Rangers laugh and say no.
The problem is that you're robbing Peter and Simon to pay Paul in this deal. Let's assume you're right and Langford is the stud you assume, but you've removed the best closer in baseball and a very good, young SP from the rotation. Therein lies the problems with this trade.
That’s a valid point, but my brain is telling me Clase and Allen are overvalued (not that BTV is wrong), it’s just my belief. It scares the crap out of me that Clase tanks or gets hurt. I was saying the same thing about Bieber last year. Closers are…replaceable, especially ones that blow 12 saves. Why any team spends a crap ton of money for them I just don’t get, but that’s just me. Allen is a solid 5, maybe a 4, and I know these guys don’t come cheaply, but the trade value of J. Naylor, Bieber, Kwan, MIF depth can cover pitching and a solid 3rd outfielder. Langford will be the real deal, you get him if you can.
NEWSLETTER? SURE, SIGN ME UP!
Very interesting idea. I would think that Cleveland would want a pitcher back too that could eat some of the innings lost by trading Allen.
That’s where trading Naylor comes in, but even without that trade if they get Langford there will be a transformation to this offense very soon. Manzardo, Langford, DeLauter, #1 pick. That’s quite the injection of talent. Pitching now is thin though, as you mentioned. McKenzie is the key. A front 3 of Bibee, Williams, McKenzie is very good, and filling the 4/5 shouldn’t be as hard to come by (in trades or $). I’ve been a trade Bieber guy, but if this trade happened then hold him for 2024 and work in 2025 to fill out the back end of the rotation.
Trading Naylor negates some or all of the offense gain for 2024. I am well aware that you are looking to 2025 or more likely 2026, but I don't see Cleveland ignoring 2024. I am for adding Langford and Mazardo to Naylor.
You do know me! Unless something happens pretty quickly the Guardians will go into 2024 as the definition of mediocre. I would be surprised if they get to .500. Why not then trade Clase, Bieber, Naylor, etc. to contending teams for very good prospects and shoot for 2025+? I’m just tired of them being average. Same old argument I’ve made before, sorry.
I share your sentiment MH, but not your ideas on how to address it. Naylor is not someone you deal. He's part of the solution to being mediocre and should be extended. You know he likes it in Cleveland and playing with his brother so he'd probably rather just sign a deal that is as fair as possible while being team friendly. I don't mind dealing Clase. In fact, I would be looking to add to this team by dangling him in trades. I'd also be very open to dealing Bieber, McKenzie, Rocchio, Freeman and Kwan. I find it almost impossible to believe that the value returned by dealing those players wouldn't put this team over the top by 2025, and likely makes them better for this season too.